Trade Talk Today K - Day 7

00:00:03: Welcome to Trade

00:00:04: Talk

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00:00:21: Welcome to Trade Talk Today.

00:00:24: Indeed, it is, can you believe it, day seven of the K. The K is the place to be the number one trade fair for the plastics and rubber industry.

00:00:37: And we are talking.

00:00:39: in our studio, to the pioneers, to the movers and the shakers, the people who are on the forefront of, and I'm happy to say today, also a little bit in the part of legislation, right?

00:00:51: Pushing forward the laws, the regulations that we need to bring about the so much needed transformation, as well as innovators.

00:01:01: And that'll be our second guest.

00:01:03: But let me first go to Welcoming Dr.

00:01:06: Christina Bunte.

00:01:07: She is the Managing Director of Plastics Europe and a little bit later I'll be speaking to Ludovic Bois.

00:01:14: He's the Product Manager of Pumps at MOOG Industrial.

00:01:18: So let's get the show on the road.

00:01:22: My first guest.

00:01:23: Christina, thank you so much for being here and I appreciate you making the time speaking to us.

00:01:28: Yeah, thank you Michael for having me.

00:01:30: Very good.

00:01:31: To start off our interview, we're going to go through some rapid fire questions, right?

00:01:35: Just for us to get a little bit of an idea of who you are, like the person behind Pastina, so to say, and also get the energy up a little bit, right?

00:01:42: So I'm going to give you ten rapid fire questions.

00:01:45: Let's quickly start.

00:01:47: So Espresso for a quick boost or a cappuccino to enjoy the moment?

00:01:52: What do you prefer?

00:01:52: Double Espresso.

00:01:53: Double Espresso.

00:01:55: Makes two of us.

00:01:57: Early strategy meetings or late night brainstorming?

00:01:59: Early strategy.

00:02:01: Digital notes or pen and paper?

00:02:04: Both.

00:02:06: Train efficiency when you're traveling or flexibility of driving by car?

00:02:10: Train.

00:02:11: Train.

00:02:13: Morning run or late gym session?

00:02:15: Morning run.

00:02:17: Structured panel discussion or spontaneous one-on-one booth conversations?

00:02:22: Both.

00:02:23: Both are important.

00:02:25: Collaborating with startups or strengthening innovation within established networks?

00:02:30: What is key?

00:02:31: Again, both.

00:02:32: Both.

00:02:33: Making it easy this morning.

00:02:36: Circular plastics breakthrough.

00:02:37: Is it about better product design or advanced recycling infrastructure?

00:02:42: I'll stick to my previous answer.

00:02:44: Good.

00:02:45: You're making it hard for me.

00:02:47: So the path to two fifty climate neutrality.

00:02:52: Is it policy frameworks first or is it technology scaling first?

00:02:58: You have to choose one.

00:02:59: I have to choose one.

00:03:00: Yes.

00:03:03: Then I say policy framework.

00:03:05: Okay, give me give me your reasoning.

00:03:06: policy framework first

00:03:09: Because as human as human kind we are in a situation where we need to transform into a position that is in the long term good but in the short term very difficult to do and This will not happen without the right policy framework.

00:03:24: Very good.

00:03:25: And my last one the industry transformation priority.

00:03:28: Is it about changing public perception?

00:03:31: or improving technical performance?

00:03:35: Technical performance.

00:03:36: Good.

00:03:37: Thank you so much, Christina.

00:03:38: Let's go on to the more serious part of our interview.

00:03:42: You might have noticed that the K has a tremendous international momentum.

00:03:48: So we're sold out.

00:03:49: And I'm kind of wondering what does this mean for the European plastics manufacturing regarding the future growth?

00:03:58: For the European plastics manufacturing, we really see that we are our members, the association of plastics manufacturers and our members are those who actually make the plastics, that they attract huge international interest, they attract the interest of visitors.

00:04:18: I see that there is a lot of demand in concrete products and concrete projects as well.

00:04:25: So I really see that the K has the power to really spark impulses to spark also transformation and to spark up business as well.

00:04:36: So it's a really great sign, especially at a time where the numbers are not so good.

00:04:40: So you may have seen that overall European plastics producers are in a really challenging spot due to the international competition.

00:04:49: But nonetheless, I really get from all the members and also from the other value chain partners that K has been the opportunity and the occasion to give a little spark of inspiration and also get us back on track in economics.

00:05:02: Very good.

00:05:03: Now, you as the management director of Plastics Europe, how are your fifty members embracing the transition towards a climate neutral circular economy?

00:05:14: We are the German Plastics Association and we are also in this regard fully aligned with the European Roof Association, so Plastics Zero overall.

00:05:23: And our European members have set themselves a clear target and that is climate neutrality, twenty fifty, accompanied by circular economy.

00:05:34: And we have set out a really clear path and pathways of how to get there.

00:05:39: So that really involves every element of plastics production from energy supplies to changing the feedstocks we use, establishing their technologies to change the feedstocks.

00:05:51: And that's really, yeah, this is really a very clear commitment that's underpinned by a clear path as well.

00:05:57: and very essential.

00:05:59: With that the packaging and packaging waste regulation mandates that thirty percent recycle content needs to be done by two thousand and thirty.

00:06:08: So what does this mean for German plastic manufacturers?

00:06:12: It means two things.

00:06:13: It means first of all that we now get a lot of demand from the converting industry to deliver and supply the recycled content.

00:06:22: even though it's only in five years that the mandates or the mandated content will actually apply.

00:06:30: But the suppliers or the converters are already thinking today, okay, how can I manage and get my sources and get my feedstock?

00:06:39: For some plastics packaging, it's going to be straightforward like PET.

00:06:44: For others, it's going to be far more difficult, especially the polyolefins.

00:06:48: And so that's really where we are now having a lot of requests from the converters.

00:06:52: Okay, how can I make that happen?

00:06:54: Who of your members can help me?

00:06:56: How can we just do it on technical level?

00:06:58: So that's the one thing that's really increased demand.

00:07:02: The second thing is that we and our members as well are really asking for an enabling policy framework because you can make it difficult or easy to achieve the target.

00:07:16: Okay, I take it back.

00:07:16: You can make it difficult or less difficult.

00:07:21: And we are really asking for a policy framework that makes it less difficult by enabling all technologies and also providing the necessary flexibility and operations to make sure that the target is achievable.

00:07:34: Because the least thing any of us wants is that we have to back down on the targets.

00:07:38: We really want the transformation to kick off the twenty thirty targets to be part of that.

00:07:43: And yeah, that's why we are really asking for.

00:07:46: the necessary.

00:07:48: And time is tight, it's only five years from now.

00:07:52: You also advocated for a clean industrial deal to support European competitiveness.

00:07:59: So what key elements do plastic producers need to take into account to push forward innovation and transformation?

00:08:11: key element is that the producers need to take into account.

00:08:14: It's really what are the strengths of the European market in the one hand.

00:08:19: And in the second, how can we also get, again, sorry for repeating, when I'm a political person, how can we get the necessary political framework?

00:08:28: And so in terms of what our strengths, we really see and we see it at case so vividly every day.

00:08:36: We have the proximity of the value chain.

00:08:38: We have the close interlinkage, the close collaboration of the value chain.

00:08:42: And I dare say, especially in Germany, with the largest producing, converting and machinery production in Europe for plastics.

00:08:52: And that proximity really makes innovation possible because plastics is not just about a material.

00:08:57: It's also how you process

00:08:58: it.

00:08:59: And we have a great linkage also to the scientific framework.

00:09:06: We have great universities.

00:09:08: We have top-notch people.

00:09:09: So these are really things we can rely on in making sure that we get, first of all, the Green Deal reality.

00:09:16: Um, and then second also to, to make, uh, to make the clean industrial deal valid.

00:09:22: And the clean industrial deal basically means you also need to make, to make the industry competitive.

00:09:27: Correct.

00:09:28: And that includes everything from, um, reasonable energy prices to access to renewable energy, a reasonable amount of bureaucracy and reporting.

00:09:39: Um, And at the same time setting, for example, targets, which say clearly, okay, that's a pathway towards transformation, but we are also enabling all technologies such as chemical, mechanical recycling, et cetera, to contribute to lots of targets.

00:09:56: Wonderful bridge to the next question.

00:09:59: If you're looking at two thirty, twenty, thirty, I repeat, what role will chemical recycling play?

00:10:06: compared to mechanical recycling when we're looking at achieving industry transformation?

00:10:12: In twenty thirty it's still going to be less and clearly less than mechanical recycling.

00:10:18: I mean mechanical recycling has in the last thirty years established a circular economy as we know it today.

00:10:23: so it's really the basis.

00:10:26: At the same time we see that there are cases where you cannot reasonably mechanical recycle where you don't get the material out that you want.

00:10:37: But also you just have a product that's very hard to recycle if you talk about automotive tires, car seats, mattresses, etc.

00:10:47: And therefore we really see that chemical recycling is needed in addition.

00:10:53: We anticipate that until twenty thirty it's gonna let's say reach a level and a maturity level where it can then really expand.

00:11:04: In the long term, they expect that it will be on a similar order of magnitude or that it will be needed on a similar order of magnitude as mechanical recycling.

00:11:16: But it's not the only two things you need.

00:11:18: You also need to reduce demand, for example, by establishing reuse models, by using smarter design.

00:11:25: Then you need both recycling technologies, or those actually multiple technologies, you need them all.

00:11:32: And in the end, you also need biomass as an alternative feedstock, sustainably source biomass.

00:11:38: And then long, long, long-term, also CCU, so using Zero Two as a source.

00:11:44: Yeah, so again, you need the full magnitude of the technological spectrum.

00:11:49: A full scope.

00:11:50: Absolutely.

00:11:50: A full

00:11:50: scope in order to get to twenty thirty and then from there to twenty fifty.

00:11:56: Dr.

00:11:56: Christine, I want to thank you so much first of all for your time for this really in-depth discussion.

00:12:02: There is a lot of work to be done and I really thank you for your service.

00:12:06: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

00:12:08: It was a great pleasure.

00:12:10: Thank you.

00:12:10: All the best for the rest of the day is at the K. Thank you.

00:12:13: Thank you.

00:12:15: Great.

00:12:15: So there you have it, Dr.

00:12:16: Christina Bunter doing some really important work pushing legislation so that transformation can happen.

00:12:23: We also took some time to look at the voices.

00:12:27: What are people thinking?

00:12:29: What are the impressions of the K and filmed around and recorded around the walls to kind of see what people are saying?

00:12:36: Let's take a listen.

00:12:42: Really enjoying meeting a lot of different people from all sorts of backgrounds and countries and seeing very innovative solutions and products.

00:12:49: It's been so amazing to be here at K-Show.

00:12:52: I've been able to meet a lot of recycled plastic manufacturers as well as machine manufacturers.

00:13:00: It's a lot of innovation in the sustainability space so it's really amazing show.

00:13:04: Thank you.

00:13:05: Very happy to be part of the K-Face show.

00:13:08: I mean, it's not the first time that

00:13:09: we are here.

00:13:09: We came since

00:13:11: years and years.

00:13:12: This show, as you know, it's only one time every three years.

00:13:16: So very important, we get to see all our partners from all over the world and discover new partners as well.

00:13:22: This is my third time to the K-Show and every year I can see a new product and it's well organized and it's the greatest in the whole world.

00:13:32: It's an opportunity to collaborate with... much and more people from different countries.

00:13:38: And what's also very amazing about it is that we get to know people from different cultures.

00:13:44: And it's always a pleasure to do that.

00:13:45: Thank you very much.

00:13:49: So it was great to hear all these many happy, satisfied voices at Decay.

00:13:54: And obviously there is lots to see, right?

00:13:57: If you are in the plastics industry, if you're involved in the rubbers industry, there is a lot of machines, a lot of trends, a lot of innovations, a lot of breakthrough technologies that you can see.

00:14:08: So please feel free and be here at the place to be, the K. And talking about things to see.

00:14:18: We also have a MOOC with us in the form of Ludovic Boas, the Product Manager of Pumps Industries at MOOC.

00:14:27: Ludovic, thank you so much for being here today.

00:14:29: Really appreciate you taking the time.

00:14:31: Yeah, thank you, Michael, for having me.

00:14:33: Yeah,

00:14:33: absolutely.

00:14:34: And to start off our interview, we're going to go with some rapid fire questions, right?

00:14:38: Just for us to get to know you a little bit more and also raise the energy of the interview, as we so nicely say.

00:14:46: I'm going to give you ten questions and you just choose which option is most suited to you.

00:14:52: I'm excited about it.

00:14:53: Very good.

00:14:53: Let's start.

00:14:55: So Espresso for a quick boost of cappuccino to enjoy the moment.

00:14:59: What do you prefer?

00:14:59: Well, I'm probably more an Espresso guy.

00:15:02: An Espresso guy.

00:15:03: Very good.

00:15:04: Early strategy meetings to set the tone or late night brainstorming for Creator's Box?

00:15:08: Well, late upon, very late.

00:15:10: Late upon.

00:15:13: Okay, hip-hop or electro on a good party playlist?

00:15:17: Well, I would probably go for electro.

00:15:19: Electro?

00:15:20: Yeah.

00:15:20: Good.

00:15:21: Train efficiency or the flexibility of driving a car when you're traveling?

00:15:25: Well, I'm still a car lover, I would say.

00:15:28: Very good.

00:15:30: Summer at the sea or winter in the mountains on your holiday?

00:15:33: More summer at the sea.

00:15:35: Good.

00:15:37: Structured panel discussions or spontaneous one-on-one booth conversations?

00:15:41: What do you

00:15:41: prefer?

00:15:42: I truly believe that both are necessary and both are very enjoyable experience.

00:15:47: I'll take both.

00:15:48: Collaborating with startups when you're looking at your job or strengthening innovation with an established networks?

00:15:54: Well, again, I think that both are really instrumental for making a good business story.

00:16:01: The manufacturing evolution, do you see this as an incremental efficiency gains or revolutionary design overalls?

00:16:08: when looking at MOOC?

00:16:09: Well, I think that looking backward to the history, I think it's all a matter of revolution.

00:16:14: You have a kind of linear evolution, but from time to time you have those revolution event.

00:16:19: You're a man after my own heart.

00:16:21: The next pump breakthrough.

00:16:23: Advanced material or smart digitalization?

00:16:26: I mean, in that case, that's really advanced material.

00:16:28: Advanced material.

00:16:30: And the last one, sustainability focus.

00:16:32: Is it about energy efficient operations or circular material cycles?

00:16:36: Hi, I think clearly both.

00:16:38: I mean, you cannot do one without the other.

00:16:40: I mean, we have to use every means in order to achieve the targets that we put to ourselves to protect and saves future generation, I truly believe.

00:16:49: Very good.

00:16:50: I will take both.

00:16:51: Very good.

00:16:52: Let's go into the more serious part of our interview.

00:16:56: We always ask people to bring a sample with us or to the show.

00:17:03: I'll repeat the question by the way.

00:17:07: Ludwig will start with a more serious part of our interview.

00:17:10: We usually ask our guests to bring us a sample to show the DNA of their company.

00:17:15: What did you bring us today and what can you show us?

00:17:17: So today what I bring to you Michael and to the audience, it's a little piston.

00:17:23: And this is a product that goes inside our pumping machine, which is the new product that we are releasing to the K-Show.

00:17:31: And what is unique about this part is that this part sounds a little bit simple.

00:17:37: But actually, in designing parts, making the most simple parts is very often the most difficult.

00:17:44: Because you would like to use as less material as possible.

00:17:47: You would like to differentiate the material in order to make sure that you can recycle them one after the others.

00:17:54: in the attempt to make the things the most cost effective very often today we start to blend material to do three d printing on top of the other several layers.

00:18:06: we do such kind of things like three d printing but we always try to spec in our product design the fact that those things needs to be sustainable first and also recyclable in order to enter into a circular economy.

00:18:21: and that's our attempt today here to make a machine which you can recycle easy and a machine that gives you a very good performance for a very attractive price.

00:18:33: because we want it in order to be successful for us but for our customers and for the global industry that such a machine cost as less as possible.

00:18:43: Very good.

00:18:43: Very, very impressive.

00:18:45: Ludwig, how are you addressing the top innovations here at the K?

00:18:50: What are you showcasing?

00:18:51: So today at the case show, we are releasing a new product, which is an hydraulic axial piston pump.

00:18:58: And I mean, MOOG disrupted the technology.

00:19:02: I mean, in the fifties, we invented a product called the Servovalve.

00:19:05: And this product changed the way all we design machines in the world.

00:19:10: How do we fly aircraft?

00:19:11: How do we bring humans into space?

00:19:15: This product really transformed at this level.

00:19:18: And today, I mean, we are releasing a new pump.

00:19:21: this kind of product power the machineries with hydraulic power.

00:19:26: You see a lot of transformation toward electric, but some of them are still a value to be hybrid, both electric and hydraulic as with the fluid as a media to transfer the power.

00:19:39: And today we are releasing to the market this new pump, which is bringing new features like increased speed, zero speed.

00:19:47: that really makes a difference in the marketplace.

00:19:51: Exciting.

00:19:52: How are you collaborating with OEMs and manufacturer to develop tailored motion control systems for plastics application?

00:20:00: Well, I mean, engineers like, you know, the top notch engineers always have this tendency to develop the product that they love.

00:20:08: But what we understand at MOOC is that we are not here to make ourselves happy.

00:20:13: We are here to bring the future together with our customers and solve a problem.

00:20:19: So the way we collaborate with them is that first, we just ask them, do you have any pain?

00:20:24: Or is there anything in your machine that you are proud that you would like to enhance even further?

00:20:29: And By discussing with them, by interacting with them, we understand what are the challenges they have to solve and work with them to specify new products that enable them to solve those problems or improve their game.

00:20:45: Very good.

00:20:46: How are you also addressing key industry trends, like, for example, the circular economy?

00:20:53: So as far as circular economy like I picture with this little piston we try to make sure that the part could be Recycled.

00:21:02: so we think about it from the very beginning to the very hand and there is no hand because this is a circular economy.

00:21:09: So what we do is that even a product after when when we manufacture it we deliver it to our customers on uh, uh, pallets that came back to us.

00:21:20: And then when the pallets came back, they do not come back empty.

00:21:23: They came back with use product that we can recycle easy and reintroduce into the manufacturing processes.

00:21:30: And this is not only a journey of us.

00:21:32: It's a journey that of course imply our customer, but also imply our supply chain.

00:21:38: So I mean, on top of the trades challenge that we are all facing, we also try to do what we call near showing in order to work.

00:21:47: collaboratively with our suppliers to enable this circular economy all together.

00:21:52: It's a family journey.

00:21:54: It's not a one man show.

00:21:56: Thank you for painting that picture.

00:21:58: I think that is so essential.

00:22:00: Last question for today is, what does the K mean, your participation at the K for you, for MOOC, not just here in Europe, but also globally?

00:22:11: I mean, MOOC has always been here to try with advanced technology.

00:22:17: to make the impossible possible.

00:22:18: This is not our current motto.

00:22:20: This was probably the previous one.

00:22:23: Today we make your world's machine moves.

00:22:27: But I mean, it's exactly about that.

00:22:29: I mean, we are facing tremendous challenges with the energy consumption that we do from Earth.

00:22:34: I mean, if you pass a middle of the year, the human kind of already consume all the energy that the planet can reproduce.

00:22:42: And that's not something sustainable at all.

00:22:44: So we are here trying to bring new innovation in order to get there.

00:22:50: We will not get there tomorrow.

00:22:52: It's a difficult journey.

00:22:53: And step by step, we improve efficiency.

00:22:56: We do the machine differently.

00:22:58: And with this pump, for example, into actual machinery, you can save up to forty four percent of your energy consumption.

00:23:05: I'm not taking about expectation.

00:23:07: I'm taking about measured savings that you do on your machine.

00:23:10: This is massive for all the hydraulic machines.

00:23:14: Very good.

00:23:15: And thank you for putting that in that context, because that is the journey of transformation that we have to do.

00:23:21: I appreciate, first of all, your time, Ludwig, for being here today, and I wish you all success.

00:23:26: further at the cake.

00:23:27: It

00:23:27: was my pleasure to be here, Michael.

00:23:28: Thanks for your further interview.

00:23:30: My pleasure.

00:23:31: So there you have it, Moog Ludovic Bois, the product manager of Pumps, giving us a story and an idea of how Moog is also playing their part in being part of the circular economy.

00:23:46: And a little bit of a teaser for what to expect for the rest of the day.

00:23:50: Please check out hall six, plastics that shape the future.

00:23:55: Again, these topics that we discussed about today will be picked up there, how to become energy efficient, how to make sure that we have zero percent carbon emissions as well as kind of being part of that circular economy.

00:24:09: Our guest for tomorrow, a little teaser.

00:24:11: We're going to be speaking to Thomas Franken, the project director of the K. And I'm also very excited to speak to Stefan Brandt, the business development manager for Microban.

00:24:21: Looking forward to seeing you tomorrow.

00:24:23: Wish you safe travels, have a good visit, and see you tomorrow.

00:24:28: Bye-bye.

00:24:29: This show was brought to you

00:24:31: by MOOC.